UK Prohibition Begins in 2027: Lifetime Tobacco Ban

[LevelUP]

A lot of people believe there are natural rights that government does not grant and therefore cannot legitimately take away. That idea goes back to the Declaration of Independence: “...they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

At the same time, freedom has a cost. If maximum safety were the only goal, we could impose a 15 mph speed limit on every road. That would probably save lots of lives, but it would also create enormous inconvenience, congestion, and make normal commerce much harder.

On the other hand, we obviously need stop signs, traffic lights, speed limits, DUI laws, etc., or the roads would become chaotic.
So I think there is always a balance between the cost of freedom and the amount of regulation needed to maintain a functioning society.

[SteveFoerster]

A lot of people believe there are natural rights that government does not grant and therefore cannot legitimately take away. That idea goes back to the Declaration of Independence: “...they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

At the same time, freedom has a cost. If maximum safety were the only goal, we could impose a 15 mph speed limit on every road. That would probably save lots of lives, but it would also create enormous inconvenience, congestion, and make normal commerce much harder.

On the other hand, we obviously need stop signs, traffic lights, speed limits, DUI laws, etc., or the roads would become chaotic.
So I think there is always a balance between the cost of freedom and the amount of regulation needed to maintain a functioning society.

That's reasonable. Rights imply responsibilities—if nothing else the obligation not to infringe on the rights of others. 

But ultimately it's all a social contract; it's not like there's an angel of liberty who will fly down with a flaming sword to smite infringers. If necessary we have to do that for ourselves.

[DegreeNerd]

If you ever think things are getting crazy in the U.S., take a look at what’s happening in other parts of the world. It can make you appreciate just how many freedoms Americans still have.

Mate, we can't even carry a knife on ourselves in Australia!! (unless you have a lawful purpose)

That's how bad our anti-gun laws are in Australia, they didn't stop there, they kept on going and are taking away are knives too.

I expect that next they'll be coming for our forks and spoons as well. 

(already got lots of other stuff that you mentioned, such as bans on teenagers on social media, lots of various restrictions around energy drinks, etc)

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The irony is that people sometimes complain about religious restrictions, especially from various forms of Christianity, but at this rate, the government may end up being more restrictive than Jesus Christ.

Wasn't the key lesson from the bible that people don't have restrictions, and instead have free will? 
God could have chosen to create rule-following robots in the garden of eden, but instead chose to create humans with free will. 

Thus it becomes everyone's free choice to follow God or not.

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Lol ya, good thing America doesn’t continue to spent trillions for a prohibition-based “war on drugs” that never goes anywhere…

I hear President Lyndon B. Johnson's War on Poverty is going along equally awesomely as the war on drugs is.

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A lot of people believe there are natural rights that government does not grant and therefore cannot legitimately take away. That idea goes back to the Declaration of Independence: “...they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

At the same time, freedom has a cost. If maximum safety were the only goal, we could impose a 15 mph speed limit on every road. That would probably save lots of lives, but it would also create enormous inconvenience, congestion, and make normal commerce much harder.

On the other hand, we obviously need stop signs, traffic lights, speed limits, DUI laws, etc., or the roads would become chaotic.
So I think there is always a balance between the cost of freedom and the amount of regulation needed to maintain a functioning society.

Arguably we need those things (although arguably a case could be made that there is at best only a temporary "need" for those)

But it is a massive leap of "logic" to then declare that it is the government who must "provide" it (i.e. steal from you and I, so as to "provide" it. Because inherently by itself the govt provides nothing at all). 

As if it's so blatantly obvious that all these things are necessary, then surely the relevant interested parties will provide such extremely important necessities themselves?

(whoever built/operates/uses these roads in the first place)

[SteveFoerster]

Wasn't the key lesson from the bible that people don't have restrictions, and instead have free will? 
God could have chosen to create rule-following robots in the garden of eden, but instead chose to create humans with free will. 

Thus it becomes everyone's free choice to follow God or not.

That's the dominant view in Christianity, although there are some Christians who believe in predestination, which would seem to be incompatible with that.

[LevelUP]

If you ever think things are getting crazy in the U.S., take a look at what’s happening in other parts of the world. It can make you appreciate just how many freedoms Americans still have.

Mate, we can't even carry a knife on ourselves in Australia!! (unless you have a lawful purpose)

That's how bad our anti-gun laws are in Australia, they didn't stop there, they kept on going and are taking away are knives too.

I expect that next they'll be coming for our forks and spoons as well. 

(already got lots of other stuff that you mentioned, such as bans on teenagers on social media, lots of various restrictions around energy drinks, etc)

Yeah, I wonder whatever happened to Australians. We used to have this badass image of you guys. You went from that iconic scene in Crocodile Dundee — "That's not a knife" — to not allowing knives at all.

A lot of people don't realize that more people in Europe die from heatstroke than Americans die from gun violence. And Europe is generally a lot colder than America.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/artic...53040.html

Wasn't the key lesson from the bible that people don't have restrictions, and instead have free will? 
God could have chosen to create rule-following robots in the garden of eden, but instead chose to create humans with free will. 

Thus it becomes everyone's free choice to follow God or not.

That's the dominant view in Christianity, although there are some Christians who believe in predestination, which would seem to be incompatible with that.

Too many people in government seem to embrace the same philosophy explored in the horror movie Heretic (2024): that the one true religion is control.

When you take that philosophy to its logical extreme, the ultimate outcome is the complete loss of individual freedom. Control becomes oppression, and oppression eventually becomes a form of slavery. North Korea is a prime example of what happens when a government seeks absolute control over every aspect of its citizens' lives.

At that point, the government no longer exists to serve the people. The people exist to serve the government.

[NotJoeBiden]

A lot of people don't realize that more people in Europe die from heatstroke than Americans die from gun violence. And Europe is generally a lot colder than America.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/artic...53040.html

Lol what kind of comparison is this: More people died in an unprecedented heatwave wave in the European contentment than the epidemic of gun violence in the United States of America that same year? Im sure more people died of gun violence worldwide than in the European heatwave, but that isnt an apt comparison either.

Better yet, what argument are you even trying to make with this?

[SteveFoerster]

A lot of people don't realize that more people in Europe die from heatstroke than Americans die from gun violence. And Europe is generally a lot colder than America.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/artic...53040.html

Lol what kind of comparison is this: More people died in an unprecedented heatwave wave in the European contentment than the epidemic of gun violence in the United States of America that same year? Im sure more people died of gun violence worldwide than in the European heatwave, but that isnt an apt comparison either.

Better yet, what argument are you even trying to make with this?

Perhaps he's just pointing out that people tend to prioritize problems based on their own preconceptions rather than on how big those problems really are.

[DegreeNerd]

If you ever think things are getting crazy in the U.S., take a look at what’s happening in other parts of the world. It can make you appreciate just how many freedoms Americans still have.

Mate, we can't even carry a knife on ourselves in Australia!! (unless you have a lawful purpose)

That's how bad our anti-gun laws are in Australia, they didn't stop there, they kept on going and are taking away are knives too.

I expect that next they'll be coming for our forks and spoons as well. 

(already got lots of other stuff that you mentioned, such as bans on teenagers on social media, lots of various restrictions around energy drinks, etc)

Yeah, I wonder whatever happened to Australians. We used to have this badass image of you guys. You went from that iconic scene in Crocodile Dundee — "That's not a knife" — to not allowing knives at all.

A lot of people don't realize that more people in Europe die from heatstroke than Americans die from gun violence. And Europe is generally a lot colder than America.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/artic...53040.html

People have this view that Australia was founded by groups of wild lawless convicts who were sent there ages ago. And that is our DNA of the country. 


Which is true. (heck, one of our most famous Australian heroes is the criminal Ned Kelly!)

But they're forgetting Australia was also founded by a generation of prison wardens and guards..... 

...and sometimes that streak shines through strongly instead!

[SteveFoerster]

People have this view that Australia was founded by groups of wild lawless convicts who were sent there ages ago. And that is our DNA of the country. 

Which is true. (heck, one of our most famous Australian heroes is the criminal Ned Kelly!)

But they're forgetting Australia was also founded by a generation of prison wardens and guards..... 

...and sometimes that streak shines through strongly instead!

What was the ratio, though? How many prison guards would they have needed when (at that time, at least) the whole continent was essentially an inescapable prison?